ARUN RATH, HOST:
Dexter Filkins of The New Yorker recently went through what we did learn about the CIA's interrogation of one of those defendants - the self proclaimed mastermind of the 9-11 attack, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Dexter Filkins, welcome to the program.
DEXTER FILKINS: Hi. Thanks very much.
RATH: So Dexter, long before the report, we all knew that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was water boarded, but there's of course been a huge debate about whether or not these techniques got useful intelligence. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed probably had more important information in his head than just about any other captive I could think about. From what you've seen in the report, can you say if the torture got anything useful out of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?
FILKINS: It looks like they got some useful information from him. But I think what's interesting about the Senate report, just to backup for second, is it's based on the CIA's internal communications. So it's basically quotations from emails and memos and cables of the CIA talking to itself. And in the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, they are talking about the interrogation as it's going on. And you can see what happens. To answer your question, there's a growing realization as the water boarding - 183 water boarding sessions - there's a growing realization that they're not really getting very much. I mean, they finally give up. The CIA is basically concluding that whatever it is that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has that's really valuable, they never got.
RATH: And can you talk about some of the false information that came out of the water torture sessions?
FILKINS: It's pretty clear that, I think by their own admission, that one of the CIA officers misread an intelligence report which I think came from another detainee that had said - and this is in their words, not mine - but it was something like black American Muslims are training in the Al-Qaeda bases in Afghanistan, and they want to find somebody to help them bomb gas stations in Montana. And he basically said get it out of KSM. Find out who that guy is who they recruited in the United States, and, you know, water board him until he gives us a name. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed basically says, over and over again, I don't what you're talking about. It's pretty clear they water board him so much he finally says, OK, I'll tell you everything. I want to talk. Please stop water boarding me. And then he makes up this story. It appears to be made up. There's no other evidence that it was real. I think the conclusion that the Senate investigators reached was that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, despite all the water boarding and all the torture, didn't provide any information that, say, helped the CIA stop an attack.
RATH: Finally, the actual information that led to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's capture sounds like it almost got lost.
FILKINS: It did almost get lost. They almost never got KSM. The CIA was in touch with - I guess you could call him an agent. They called - they referred to him as Asset X which is, you know, right out of a spy novel. He basically came to them and said, look, I can take you to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. And the CIA basically - I think the agent who was cultivating him made a recommendation back to headquarters saying let's put this guy in the payroll. He's great. The answer came back saying no, cut him loose. And they did. They cut him loose. And then I think nine months passed, and finally they found him again. And they almost cut him loose again. And then without any coordination or contact with the CIA, he just goes off and finds Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in Pakistan, runs into him, slips off to a bathroom and sends his CIA handler a text message saying I am with KSM. And within hours, the CIA and Pakistani intelligence launched this military operation to grab Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, which they did. So yeah, it's an amazing story. Like, you couldn't make it up. But they almost missed him.
RATH: Dexter Filkins wrote the story "Khalid Sheikh Mohammed And The CIA" for The New Yorker. He joined us from Brooklyn. Dexter Filkins, thanks very much.
FILKINS: Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
